@nitramnagrom3574
Thanks so much for pressing this question and bringing your own research to the matter. I love to hear Atheists thoughtfully engaging in the matter with Christians, and these Christians did a superb job allowing you to speak and listening to you. We need more across-the-isle conversations like these.
@Lord.alucarD
Whatever makes moral sense today and is mentioned in the Bible is taken at face value. Whatever doesn't make sense is immediately interpreted.
@Arez455
I've only seen bits of this conversation. But I'm happy to see it happened. Thank you Alex for having these two on. I'm a Christian and it's great to see this dialog taking place.!
@tussk.
The bible doesn't say what it says, and if it does, that's not what it meant.
@elizabeth5898
Christians love Alex. We have questions too! Its so great to talk about these things and work towards figuring things out! Great video ❤
@hxh05g
As a longtime believer in Jesus as the Messiah, I cannot state how deeply I appreciate you, Alex. I am so grateful for the questions you ask and who you ask them to, but I deeply admire your study of the texts I consider to be holy. You seem to have such a pure heart and although I end up at a different conclusion than you do about Jesus and God, you set such an example to all of how to approach these issues and these texts. The world would be a better place if everyone could engage with each other like you do. Thank you for doing what you do.
@anaccount8474
This is a fascinating study of how people with an unshakable belief can stretch any information to fit their beliefs.
@Rustysgirl17
This was so good! As a Christian I still have a ton of questions and have the same curiosity and conundrums as a non-believer. My questions as a Christian don't mean that I am less faithful or less obedient or unbelief to our Father God but more that I just want a deeper understanding, a shared community of believers who are critical thinkers so coming to an atheists' discussions with devout Christians like Cliffe & Stuart; makes sense to me 😁 Jesus is King, I have no doubts; I just want to know Him as in depth as humanly possible thus having a million questions. Thanks for sharing!
@evanolet
"abusing the new freedom that they have" ffs
@JoeBob79569
The look between the two guys at 8:38 is basically like they're saying: "This makes sense, but there's no way in hell I'm going to open this can of worms and agree with him!" 🤣
@joelmcleay
The issue with the 1 Corinthians passage in my view, is the wooden nature of translation and the formalization of language that occurs when the biblical text is being handled. I think the Knechtles have it somewhat right and the Greek text supports their conclusion. "I permit not a woman to speak" - speak here is λαλεω, which traditionally was a less formal form of "speak" - like to "chat". Now by the first century, there was less and less distinction between λαλεω and λεγω (which is formal speech), but I think the argument applies well. For instance, whenever Jesus or anyone else of importance says something in the Gospel texts, it's always λεγω (or its Aorist past-tense form, εἰπον). So the issue with this verse, in my view, is that we have translated it to "speak", and then when reading in English, we conflate that "speak", which sounds formal, with formal speaking in a church setting. When really, it's about keeping quiet when it's not your turn. As a married Christian man with a curious Christian wife, I've had to tell her to leave her whispered questions till we get in the car to go home afterward - because otherwise I miss the speaker's next point while answering her, as well as distracting others and potentially discouraging the speaker by having our own whispered conversation.
@meekwolph
Hi Alex, I really admire and appreciate the good faith and genuine curiosity with which you approach some of these intellectually-difficult conversations and topics. It's a rare and wonderful virtue. Keep it up!
@Tomf-tz4pd
1. Why does Paul appear to prohibit women from speaking in church, and how does this align with his broader teachings? The Bible teaches that Paul’s instruction in 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 is tied to maintaining order in worship. In the same chapter, Paul emphasizes that "God is not the author of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33). This reflects the need for structured worship rather than absolute prohibition. Paul's acknowledgment of women prophesying with their heads covered (1 Corinthians 11:5) shows that he did not forbid women from all forms of speech or leadership, but addressed specific issues of disorder in Corinth. 2. How should the instruction that women not teach or assert authority over men (1 Timothy 2:12) be interpreted? The Bible teaches roles within the church that reflect divine order. 1 Timothy 2:12 aligns with Paul's other teachings, which emphasize submission to God’s design for leadership. However, this does not preclude women from participating in ministry. For example, Paul commended Priscilla, who, alongside her husband Aquila, taught Apollos “the way of God more accurately” (Acts 18:26). The Bible calls for humility and cooperation in leadership rather than domination. 3. How did the cultural backdrop of Greco-Roman gender norms, gnostic beliefs, and pagan cults influence these writings? The Bible teaches timeless principles but often addresses specific cultural issues. For instance, in Ephesus, where 1 Timothy 2:12 was written, women were influenced by false teachings, possibly from local pagan practices or gnostic ideas. Paul’s instructions sought to protect the integrity of the gospel by discouraging unqualified teaching, regardless of gender (1 Timothy 2:11-14). The emphasis is not on suppression but on preparation and qualification for ministry. 4. How do the restrictive verses align or conflict with other Pauline passages, such as those allowing women to prophesy (1 Corinthians 11:5)? The Bible teaches a harmonious view of gender roles. 1 Corinthians 11:5 affirms that women prayed and prophesied publicly, demonstrating their active participation in worship. These roles were exercised within the framework of God’s order. Paul’s writings reflect situational guidance—addressing issues of chaos or false teaching—rather than universally restricting women’s speech or ministry (Galatians 3:28, "There is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus"). 5. Is it plausible that certain controversial verses were later marginal annotations that became part of the main text? While the Bible’s transmission over centuries involved human copying, 2 Timothy 3:16 affirms that “all Scripture is given by inspiration of God.” This ensures that the essential truths remain intact. Variations in manuscript placement, such as 1 Corinthians 14:34-35, invite careful study but do not negate the core teachings of the Bible. The preservation of Scripture is a testament to God’s guidance. 6. What do these verses imply about women's roles in ministry and leadership? The Bible teaches that women have significant roles in ministry. Examples include Deborah, a judge and prophetess (Judges 4:4-5); Phoebe, a deaconess (Romans 16:1); and Priscilla, a teacher (Acts 18:26). Paul’s instructions about order in worship do not diminish these examples but instead guide the church in preserving unity and reverence in its practices. 7. How do interpretations of these texts influence modern church practices and gender dynamics? The Bible’s teachings call for balance: respecting God’s order while recognizing the equal value of men and women in ministry. Galatians 3:28 affirms spiritual equality in Christ, while other passages provide guidance for roles within the church. Modern applications should honor the biblical principles of humility, service, and cooperation in advancing the gospel.
@beelzzebub
If you grant women the freedom to talk, and they do it more than you want, they've not "abused" their freedom. They've merely exercised it and if you feel otherwise then your a proponent of giving women LIMITED freedoms, i.e. not freedom at all...
@maddyay2079
He was like “well they should be silent cuz they’ll disrupt the church” sexism explained with sexism love it
@zenon3021
Bible? Sexist? No way! 1 Timothy 2:12 “I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” 1 Cor 14:35 “It is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” Deut. 25:11-12 “If two Israelite men get into a fight and the wife of one tries to rescue her husband by grabbing the testicles of the other man, you must cut off her hand. Show her no pity.” Deut. 22:28-29 “If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. Lev 21:9 “If a priest’s daughter defiles herself by becoming a prostitute, she also defiles her father’s holiness, and she must be burned to death.” Deut 21:10-11 “When you go to war against your enemies and the Lord your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman you may take her as your wife.” Exodus 21:20 “If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken for he (the slave) is his property” Exodus 21:7 “When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are” Leviticus 25: 44-46 “You may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you […] You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.”
@originalbukatv
I watched the full interview, and I don't recall this conversation. Thank you providing this information as an extra bonus. 😁😁
@justacupomacaroni6387
1:48 "Rip the shi-shreds out of a worship service..." That was close lol
@JenNagleInk
He is totally talking around the question but not answering it about women. That quote was too well-rehearsed not to have been used several times before. I like how they both looked at each other after Alex asked the question. Nice video Alex. Thanks for trying your hardest to talk sense into people
@dwaynealwyn